Modding help/requests

[Peachrocks]

Having done a few modding projects where I just design or make changes and had a few iffy life experiences recently the thing I find is that most people who can figure this stuff out themselves have a talent of thinking a certain way which is what makes them interested in modding in the first place. However explaining the process to those who do not think this way isn't so easy.

Keep in mind the audience you are aiming at might give up fairly easily. They'll either ignore it and give up or pester you guys to do it for them. They just want it to be fun.

It's a bit lazy, but they just don't have the interest and want it to remain fun for them and that's the key word.

So Steman, what is the bone glitch?

[Red Blaster]

@Steman: I wonder how far MadmaN is in his redesign for the ultimate modding thread.

Okay got the skin replacement to work.

Ethan is one of those people who isnt listed by name so I'll have to find him later so I used Jerry.

It works except he's got Jimmy's face with his mouth wide open. He looks like Jerry's smaller retarded brother who I've nicknamed Jirry. Sorta funny...

Still I kept the files and replaced them back into the file and kept the ninja outfit as it was. So if anything I'm mostly cool with skin replacements except for this minor flaw.

It's easy to fix, and I explained it thoroughly and made it easy to understand in the ultimate modding thread.

Okay... where exactly did you put this explanation to deal with this particular flaw in that thread? *Idiot face*.

I looked over the skinning section in the ultimate modding thread and found an entire explanition but it wasn't written (or the main post wasn't edited) by you nor did it refer specfically to fix this issue so once again I'm missing something eeep.

The stuff that Steman didn't mention is all the stuff referring to the ide, so is this what I need to do? I just want to be super sure and understand it myself rather than just copying a list of instructions and not actually learning how the thing works.

I'll copy and paste what I have written in the modding thread:

I will use Gary as an example.

Okay, first back up the World and ide file.

Bear in mind, this process will also give you the Bullies fighting style.

Now then, first open the ide file with HxD, and then what you do is copy from "player...player" to "/Anim/Player.act.." And yes, including those dots at the end. But don't copy anything else. You have to be precise.

Then "paste insert" it into the character you want to replace. You want to play as Gary. So highlight the following: "Nemesis_Gary" until "/Anim/B_Striker_A.act....", then right-click and paste it on there.

Now open up the backup ide file, and copy from "Nemesis_Gary" until "/Anim/B_Striker_A.act...." and paste insert it in the first ide on "player" until "Player.act.."

Now just change STUDENT into PLAYER1 for Jimmy, and vice versa for Gary.

That finishes the ide work.


This'll make them look how they're supposed to.

[Prosecute]

@red what i think peach and hayley are saying all and all (and rightly so) is that the "ultimate modding thread" is clearly too confusing in total for newcomers and some people in general and thus is null and void.

clearly the topic has great potential but needs a great deal of renovation to combat these crucial needs; what peach's trying to say about his mod is that the problem he has is with the bone glitch, (which you gathered) but the bone glitch isn't even up their!, it hasn't even been mentioned or explained in the fighting styles bit or even throughout the entire topic!, so basically the entire thread is useless to newcomers as of present. and this defeats the whole purpose of what we initially joined forces to make it for.

theirfore the problem is bigger than what we first though and the whole modding community is in jeopardy, after watching and being a part of the evolution of modding this game, I can clearly state that we are in dire need of newcomers to take this progress further than what it is as of present and this isn't going to be achieved if no one can understand these tutorials, as far as I'm aware their is only one savior to remedy this problem and it comes in the indispensable form of xf-madman, evidently his in depth and detailed tutorials have proved very successful both for newcomers and experienced modders and a complete renovation of this thread by him could achieve this. i think this is a case of "in mad we trust"

what we face here is a grave task which needs to be dealt with very rapidly, so just shunning this event off won't help in neither the short or long term, that said taking into account what Hayley said their is no urgent "get it done now" need, but the sooner the better.

what another problem is which peach has explained is that people have seen that we have bent over backwards and put a considerable amount of hard work in getting this thread up for the purpose of getting the modding community up and running and/or stopping trolls, and its good to see and finally get some feedback on this matter this is whats going to make this modding board a success story for newcomers, people discussing these problems openly without the fear of offending someone, but if that's the point whats been put across in the board then that's irresponsible of the active modders and this can be redeemed if we take this as a learning curve.

This said I think we do need to put in consideration that this thread is only a young pup in terms of age and their is much needed work which needs doing, we need to explain everything fully file for file including .ide files and how they work etc.

Okay got the skin replacement to work.

Ethan is one of those people who isnt listed by name so I'll have to find him later so I used Jerry.

It works except he's got Jimmy's face with his mouth wide open. He looks like Jerry's smaller retarded brother who I've nicknamed Jirry. Sorta funny...

Still I kept the files and replaced them back into the file and kept the ninja outfit as it was. So if anything I'm mostly cool with skin replacements except for this minor flaw.

The bone glitch is basicly whats happened here, where it messes the skin up and everything remains jimmys size, this can be fixed by modding ide.img in the way red has posted

[Red Blaster]

Yeah, I saw that comment, and I responded. Do you know how far MadmaN is with the thread redesign?

[Prosecute]

lol thought you'd missed it with it being at the bottom of the last page, ...i'm not entirely certain how far on he is but he did say something about a possible preview tonight before scooting out, I checked some of his work out before and it does look pretty descent, but in terms of the writing out of the tuts i'm unsure, i know he plans on doing screenshots etc but thats about all i know, Lets just hope he can pull something good out of a bad situation.

[Hayley]

I looked over the skinning section in the ultimate modding thread and found an entire explanition but it wasn't written (or the main post wasn't edited) by you nor did it refer specfically to fix this issue so once again I'm missing something eeep.

Red, you're assuming that Peachrocks knows that's how to fix the problem when there's no indication that that step is necessary to make the skeleton appear normal, or what that step even does.

I think this kind of goes back to the whole "experienced modders understand what that does so there's no need to explain it much" type of thing I'm seeing, and so they continue marching forward in with tutorials in gibberish that newbies don't understand.

I just want to be super sure and understand it myself rather than just copying a list of instructions and not actually learning how the thing works.

If inexperienced modders have never done this before, how are they going to know how these things work and what they do? Especially when the tutorials don't elaborate on these things. If you guys are looking for constructive criticism, you need to listen to us. I'm not just speaking for Peach and myself, but for new modders as a whole who might think these same thoughts. You're giving incomplete explanations because you understand it and therefore feel it's not worth explaining in great detail. Everything seems to revolve around the small group of advanced modders who recognize this stuff like the back of their hand, which is unfair to those who don't know what anything means.

I'm sorry if this makes me sound like a bitch, but it's the blunt truth. If you guys really are looking to help out the newbies, you really have to sit down and dumb it down a lot so they can understand what exactly is going on.

[Prosecute]

@red what i think peach and Hayley are saying all and all (and rightly so) is that the "ultimate modding thread" is clearly too confusing in total for newcomers and some people in general and thus is null and void.

clearly the topic has great potential but needs a great deal of renovation to combat these crucial needs; what peach's trying to say about his mod is that the problem he has is with the bone glitch, (which you gathered) but the bone glitch isn't even up their!, it hasn't even been mentioned or explained in the fighting styles bit or even throughout the entire topic!, so basically the entire thread is useless to newcomers as of present. and this defeats the whole purpose of what we initially joined forces to make it for.

theirfore the problem is bigger than what we first though and the whole modding community is in jeopardy, after watching and being a part of the evolution of modding this game, I can clearly state that we are in dire need of newcomers to take this progress further than what it is as of present and this isn't going to be achieved if no one can understand these tutorials, as far as I'm aware their is only one savior to remedy this problem and it comes in the indispensable form of xf-madman, evidently his in depth and detailed tutorials have proved very successful both for newcomers and experienced modders and a complete renovation of this thread by him could achieve this. i think this is a case of "in mad we trust"

what we face here is a grave task which needs to be dealt with very rapidly, so just shunning this event off won't help in neither the short or long term, that said taking into account what Hayley said their is no urgent "get it done now" need, but the sooner the better.

what another problem is which peach has explained is that people have seen that we have bent over backwards and put a considerable amount of hard work in getting this thread up for the purpose of getting the modding community up and running and/or stopping trolls, and its good to see and finally get some feedback on this matter this is whats going to make this modding board a success story for newcomers, people discussing these problems openly without the fear of offending someone, but if that's the point whats been put across in the board then that's irresponsible of the active modders and this can be redeemed if we take this as a learning curve.

This said I think we do need to put in consideration that this thread is only a young pup in terms of age and their is much needed work which needs doing, we need to explain everything fully file for file including .ide files and how they work etc.

Hayley's basically just elaborated on what I've said previously in my last post (2nd paragraph) and that's the fact that how are these people going to know whats what, the tutorials up their seem to be aimed at people who at least have some understanding of using a hex editor or imgtool etc, allthough their easy to read and done to a professional standard for us to be able to follow it blindfolded the newcomers will have trouble reading it as to them it just looks like the threads made using hieroglyphics because we haven't explained the basics or key points etc. All we've done is just slammed a few tuts on to 1 page right heres how to do this etc without breaking anything down into sizeable chunks, we need to do a complete rewrite in dum ass form so even retards will be able to read and follow them, and like i've said before our best bet here is for us 2 to just kickback and put our feet up for now and basicly just slam the huge assignment onto mads workdesk, as his tuts have prooved useful.

[Hayley]

we need to do a complete rewrite in dum ass form so even retards will be able to read and follow them

Hey now, you didn't have to go that far. Not everyone shares the same learning speed.

In any case, that's exactly what needs to be done and I'm glad that you understand that changes have to be made. However, I'm not quite sure how MadMan would feel about having to do all the work in rewriting the tutorial. He's already got quite a bit on his plate at the moment.

Then again, I'm not him, so I can't really speak for what he wants to do.

Anyway, I think that's all the feedback I can give. Just work on explaining things better and you should be good to go. Not everybody is born with the skill to understand this stuff, you know.

[Prosecute]

lol, hehe my tongue does tend to slip at times

madman will relish at the opportunity and take to this like he does with every other project, he will sink his teeth into the task, and as this is a job which will encourage growth for the modding side of things then i can guarantee he will, even though it has been uncomfortably bulldozed onto him, but their is sadly no other alternative, anyway it serves him right for being too good at doing his tuts

mad was planning on doing this anyway and the task was on his card prior to this thread being created, only the difference is that we now know the scale of the operation, what went wrong and whats needed to remedy this I'm sure their will be support for him when needed, I for one won't leave him in the lurch and help out when I can, but he has seen how bogged down i am at the moment with this model list which we're working on

[MadmaN]

Aye, I already have been rewriting various tutorials and getting them ready in site format for a tutorial and bully mod site that I am coding in html5 atm and it is looking extremely nice. I may end up hosting it in the end since I dont yet know if AJ will be willing to provide some minor space for it and link it with the forum, But I will discuss it in detail with him and see what he thinks  is best since after all...he does run this place.

[MadmaN]

Yeah, I saw that comment, and I responded. Do you know how far MadmaN is with the thread redesign?

In regards to your question Red, I am instead sticking all of this into a site layout which will be easier to deal with and we can just use the threads as a place to start new tutorials when one pops up for somthing new, and I can add it to the site itself that I am doing and I will post a link for everyone to look at and comment on since it is kinda taking a little bit more of my time to code it...but its also a very simple site compered to most I have coded  since in the end its still basic html, just html5 which I must say is quite nice for a change instead of dealing with php or asp.net or all javascript, flash or whatever.

[Prosecute]

there we are problem solved!

[Peachrocks]

I'm sorry if this makes me sound like a bitch, but it's the blunt truth. If you guys really are looking to help out the newbies, you really have to sit down and dumb it down a lot so they can understand what exactly is going on.

It's not so much it needs to be dumbed down entirely. It's just it needs to be explained more clearly so its easier to join the dots. Like when I followed those steps Steman gave me, I thought I'd made a mistake with what I'd done, so I had to check back but the problem was something else entirely. Because I haven't done this before, if something goes wrong I am going to suspect that I did something wrong in the process.

I guess I'm trying to be super sure in my understanding because you want people to be able to understand this process and do it themselves, so I am trying to assume very little in order to give you the best feedback possible. See normally I might have just assumed that Red was talking about that but some people might not have made that connection because it doesn't specfically relate to that problem.

Also I think it was mentioned earlier, but people not only absorb information at different speeds but more efficently in different ways. Some people like pretty pictures (or even videos) but that's something for later once you've got all the work done.

[Red Blaster]

Would it help if I took screenshots, Peach?

[Peachrocks]

For me? Nah. I should be fine. I'm just saying in general.